Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Hello and welcome to the WBA podcast. My name is Sheena Mitchell. I'm a pharmacist in mom of three. I combine healthcare and practical advice to help you on your parenting journey. If you enjoy listening to a WBA podcast, I'd be really grateful if you could follow or subscribe and leave a review, it really helps to support the show. Thank you. I am delighted to partner with one of my all time favorite products, Sale Plus. This is the world's first 100% natural dry salt therapy device. It's clinically proven to relieve a wide variety of allergens and respiratory conditions. This salt therapy method has been trusted for generations and has become hugely popular worldwide. As more and more people recognize the superb results achieved from a natural and noninvasive method, this device will help you breathe easier and sleep better.
Speaker 1 00:00:57 Today I'm joined by Laura dialing AKA the fabulous pharmacist. Laura is the founder of the FPI Range of Supplements, and in 2022 she won the Pharmacist of the Year Award at the IPN Awards. Laura loves all things nutrition, yoga, and cooking. Laura's fascination with the wonderful powers of plants, herbs, and mushrooms from around the world show that nature and science can work together in harmony. Today, myself and Laura discuss why we've chosen to get our children vaccinated for flu. I thought it would be interesting for people to get the perspective of two different pharmacists, which add all about the benefits and risks and how easy it is for children to receive. Talk about the greater benefits in our communities and overall explain how it works and what we think the pros and cons are. I hope you find this chat really interesting and I hope it helps to give you a bit of clarity on something that is being talked a lot about at the moment. So thank you so much for joining me today, Laura. I hope you're keeping well.
Speaker 2 00:01:59 So welcome. Yeah, I'm doing great. It's actually a nice day today.
Speaker 1 00:02:03 It is. It's freezing though, isn't it?
Speaker 2 00:02:05 Yeah, I'm cold. I'm cold.
Speaker 1 00:02:07 Yeah. And I think that it has very quickly gone from summer to winter. I dunno where Autumn's gone. And definitely we can see with the rise of all of the regular, I suppose, viruses associated with the common cold like rhinovirus and antivirus, which is normal for those to be up at this time of year. It's definite that, yeah, winter bugs are kicking in early this year. Have you seen a lot of it out and about?
Speaker 2 00:02:32 Yeah, I have. And you know, we've snotty noses in our own house actually at the minute, so, and I think as well, isn't it to be considered maybe that we've been masked up for the last few winters, so you know, there's gonna be both going around that people probably haven't been exposed to. Yeah. So people need to maybe be aware of that as well, you know, properly, you know, something that we need to consider
Speaker 1 00:02:52 That. Yeah, that is quite an important one because I know looking at the figures, RSV is up like last year basically it was up at a really high rate after, you know, I suppose not having figures and you know, even against pre covid figures it was just so much higher than expected and this year it's actually up about another 10 to 15% based on the last two weeks. So OSV is the virus that causes bronchitis basically for people who aren't aware, which is the leading cause of hospitalizations in children at this time of year due to respiratory illness, um, causes horrendous inflammation in the airways and can cause a difficulty breathing. So, you know, I think the fact that children normally would've had that disease before they're two and as you've said there, they didn't get that automatic community because they weren't exposed to it during lockdown and now maybe they're those children two and up getting a little bit sicker cause they don't have that.
Speaker 2 00:03:56 Yeah, it's quite distressing as a parent when your child has difficulty breathing. Like I know even myself, even though I would've, you know, very much had the wherewithal about what to do when they are that little bit wheezer. When they are sniffly, it's very scary, particularly the younger they are because they seem to not be able to catch their breath sometimes, especially when they're a little bit distressed. So I can understand how a mom or dad will be, will be very worried when their child, uh, succumbeded to something like gsv.
Speaker 1 00:04:23 I know, it's awful. It is. It's one of those really frightening ones. Obviously we're here today to talk all about the flu vaccine and children and
Speaker 2 00:04:32 What are we, I didn't know that didn't mind the flu.
Speaker 1 00:04:34 Did no one send you a memo? No, I know
Speaker 2 00:04:40 <inaudible> all I talk about during the winter, <laugh> like get your child vaccinated.
Speaker 1 00:04:46 I know. And do you find, so this is what's really interesting, do you find, and we can talk about the s of it now in a minute, but do you find it's a hard sell? Do you feel like you have to work her harder than you should to convince people?
Speaker 2 00:04:57 So maybe, uh, the first year that it came out people were a little bit, what is this? You know? But certainly like last year I've vaccinated at 500 kids.
Speaker 1 00:05:07 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:07 In and out. It was like literally a revolving door. So I think people are a lot more aware of it and I suppose people don't want their kids being outta school, you know, with the flu because it can, they can be out for up to a week with flu symptoms. Um, and then I think since the onset of covid we are a lot more aware about how what we do to manage our own health can actually have a knock on effect on the rest of our family, particularly our grandparents. So there's a lot more awareness about how we can help protect those people and even little kiddies that are vulnerable that are, that would have kind of a lot more tendency to get quite ill with flu vaccine, you know, like down syndrome children and uh, other people with like lung issues, et cetera, cystic fibrosis. So there's definitely a lot more awareness now. Um, but, but maybe it is a little bit of a hard sell, um, in terms of, you know, people want to know and quite rightfully, you know, what are the, what are the cons of doing this?
Speaker 1 00:06:06 Yeah. And I think actually the Covid vaccination drive, you know, helped create a lot of awareness about how vaccines work and how they benefit us. So maybe if a lot of people are more vaccine aware and open-minded to the benefits of, as you said, preventing something flu, we tend to think, oh sure do you know, it's, it's just a flu, but flu over the last 10 years has caused 5,000 children to be hospitalized and and that's just in Ireland with 200 ending up in intensive care and 40 ultimately dying of complications flu, which is horrendous. And as we know from Covid, if it's something you can prevent, like there's just no need to not get the vaccine. We can talk a little bit more about the cons in a minute. Um, but yeah, I know even this year now we're getting an awful lot of calls about it and people certainly seem to be more proactive. I know the asthma society were saying that really it's something that should be kind of included in the childhood schedule, like just done as a regular thing but
Speaker 2 00:07:10 On a yearly basis. Yeah, well I think the fact that the government, I think when the first year they brought it out it was only free up to the age of 12, wasn't it? Yeah. And then, then they quickly changed their minds and then they, they made it free up to the age of 17. So I think the fact that it's free and freely available and you can, you know, technically walk into pharmacy and get it, obviously we wouldn't encourage this to walk in. You need to make an, you need to make an appointment guys, please do
Speaker 1 00:07:33 Please bring advance,
Speaker 2 00:07:34 You know, we can do it in in GP surgeries as well. So there's, there's many route for people to able to get it and then obviously with pharmacies opening errors being yeah, significantly higher than say GP surgeries even, you know, we we're easily accessible late at night and at the weekends and stuff like that. So I would, I would say that that's probably the reason for the increase as well.
Speaker 1 00:07:54 Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think it is, That's one thing we really have is I suppose our ease of access. And of course there are times where someone will walk in and look for it and have the child with them and if you can do them, you, you can. But like obviously with the booster program going and everything, it's kind of manic so definitely well
Speaker 2 00:08:14 It's so, but the thing about it is, is that the flu vaccine itself is really easy to do. Like it's just a little nasal uh, spray up each nostril and then the kitty's done, it's the admin afterwards. So I, you know, and I always had my, my per pre students were always the ones that were doing my, my, my admin dedicated. Yeah. What did you learn what to do in your pre-grad or, Well, I learned how to properly, I learned how to do all the admin for the three back <laugh>. Um, but the, the reality is, is that once you have a really good, you know, tech or front of shop person that can do that for you as the pharmacist, you really just need to go in and give it to the people and just mind them, you know, for the few minutes. And
Speaker 1 00:08:55 I think because of the covid rollout, we've all increased our capacity. Do you know, I know in my own pharmacy in Miltown, like we have additional staff because we're just constantly vaccinating and initially we were trying to do it with existing staff just working a bit extra, but clearly that's not sustainable or fair on everyone. So I'd imagine a lot of pharmacies are geared up for the winter. The winter. Well
Speaker 2 00:09:16 I think when people are, when when they wanna do the vaccines and if they have a vaccine program, they try and make sure that they, they do it with the correct amount staff. Uh, you know, I even know pharmacies say that do it on Thursdays and Tuesdays only. Yeah. And they will have their extra staff on those days, but I do know pharmacies that just say they just don't have the capacity this year. Yeah. So they're not doing them and that's understandable as well with all the other stuff that's going on. So I think that it's important that uh, people phone up their pharmacy if they're doing it first and foremost, but then yeah, do get it done and you can, you can go in after school, you can go in your lunch, you know, it's really simple.
Speaker 1 00:09:45 You mentioned there that it's an nasal vaccine and it's really so noninvasive, isn't it? It's literally just a little spray in each nostril. Like I always find that I'm asking kids, Oh I just want to see what you think this smells like. Do you know? And it's so funny the answers you get back,
Speaker 2 00:10:01 Oh that cute. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I'm much more aggressive. I just go in and do <laugh>, I wanna mess them. No, they're all very pin
Speaker 1 00:10:09 Them down.
Speaker 2 00:10:09 I've only had, I've only ever had two meltdowns and I think it was more that um, it was the build up to it mm-hmm <affirmative> rather than actually the, you know, the big scary pharmacy. I think maybe, you know, and if parents just say to their kid, you look, we're just gonna get you that scenes really quick and simple. It's just up the nose, it's just like blowing your nose but opposite. Yeah. Then it's fine and and they're fine. What
Speaker 1 00:10:33 You were saying there is really important about the mom may be preparing the child a little bit cuz and not stressing themselves. I find if the mom obviously children just absolutely absorb our own emotions and so if you're calm and cool and casual about it, yeah they'll find it much easier and less stressful.
Speaker 2 00:10:49 Like, and some people you know do the bribery thing. They say, Oh you know, we'll go to McDonald's or we'll get you a little treat afterwards. But sometimes in, in a way that's almost like building up to something massive as well, you know, I think almost just let's just go into the pharmacy, get your food vaccine. When we got hers sometimes the whole family comes in as well. It's great cuz they see the mom and dad being jabbed in the arm and they realize they only have to get it up the nose, which is wonderful
Speaker 1 00:11:11 And there's great crack about that. You're like how great is your daddy? Let's see.
Speaker 2 00:11:16 I know. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:11:17 Sorry. And you can laugh at him. I think look, many kids um, will be happy to have the opportunity to have
Speaker 2 00:11:23 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:11:24 So in terms of side effects it's really quite straightforward. And I was just saying this to someone earlier, I think actually the science behind this is amazing. So this vaccine is obviously attenuated so weakened but it's also altered so that it can only replicate in cold temperatures. So we're administering it into the nose and it is a live vaccine so it'll replicate away within the nose but as soon as it enters your body it's killed like it, it can't replicate, can't work. I just think that's amazing. I love telling the kids that I'm like, this gives you flu of the nose but nowhere else <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:12:00 And some people nah, isn't it? I mean the science behind it is really wonderful.
Speaker 1 00:12:04 Yeah. Yeah. And like as a result then I suppose okay you can get a bit of congestion or whatever but I dunno about you. I certainly rarely, you know, hear people suffering with side effects afterwards. There's never any complaints.
Speaker 2 00:12:16 No, no. Maybe a little spoon for a cow poly is all people need or a bit of ibuprofen or something like that. If they do experience you know a little bit of a headachey can they get maybe a little slight headache? Yeah. Is that one of the s sometimes but yeah, usually they get on very well with it or the people realize you don't get the flu by getting the flu vaccine.
Speaker 1 00:12:33 Yeah, yeah. And even though, cause I think that's a big question that people have because it's a live vaccine that there's may be concern about that but it actually just promotes a better immune response. It's not that it's any more risky really. Yeah of course there's certain groups that can't have live vaccines like people children with extremely weak immune systems or those with living with patients for example who've had bone marrow transplants and the whole thing about asthma. So this is where it gets a bit interesting I suppose in that if your child is, has very severe asthma, they should probably get the injection version. Particularly if they're having a flare up and been on steroids in the last three days or had to use their inhalers more frequently.
Speaker 2 00:13:13 Why is that Sheena? Is that because of the fact that it's a live vaccine?
Speaker 1 00:13:19 Yeah, so I suppose it's potential to cause side effects and complications is greater in those patients. Whereas with the Q I V it's not so I know we have a few patients now who, you know, I've had to give annual injection flu vaccines to because say their immune system just wouldn't be capable of coping with a live vaccine. But that's extremely unusual and that's the exception. And for asthmatics it's the same thing. If they're going through a flare up you don't want to trigger, I suppose symptoms to worsen um, and potentially an asthma attack. Um, but in the most case, and this is where it's like people will hear that and then go, oh god, I'm worried about getting my asthmatic vaccinated. But it really is highly recommended because the complications, you know, one in five kids have asthma in Ireland, it's very rare that you'd have one that wouldn't be able to get the nasal vaccine. So if their asthma is controlled at all they should definitely get the nasal vaccine and it can help to prevent like pneumonia, bronchitis, um, even encephalitis. So a hundred percent worth doing. But yeah like and this is the thing like you know yourself Flora, like we kind of run through all of this in the pharmacy with the parent at the time just to make sure that they're, you know, not suffering from severe flare up of an asthma condition or do you know that they're not taking aspirin or Yeah. Anything like that.
Speaker 2 00:14:47 I think that when um, if kids are experiencing flare of asthma though they're generally not able to come into the pharmacy anyway. So you know, I always just tell the parents just to hold off. Yeah. And wait until they're a little bit better. But yeah, I um, and I know of some schools that are actively kind of encouraging it as well because they just want less kids out and the teachers not to be safe by either. Cuz obviously it's spreads. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:15:06 Absolutely. And yeah, it's, it's a definitely an important thing in terms of infection awareness because as we saw a lot of teachers were unhappy, which is fair about I suppose being under pressure to turn up to school when you know they hadn't had vaccines and stuff. So I suppose anything we can do to make their lives easier cuz we don't know who they have sick at home or what conditions they may have themselves.
Speaker 2 00:15:31 Exactly. Yeah, no that's important. I think that all came out with Covid as well. You just didn't know who had underlying conditions that you were working with Yeah. Or that you were in contact with, isn't that right?
Speaker 1 00:15:41 That is absolutely it. I know even myself, I actually got the flu in 2020 and because I think I shared just this during the week I have an autoimmune form of arthritis, so I'm on biologics which are immunosuppressive and one of the kids came home with flu and I kind of thought nothing of it and you know, you're smuggling on the couch or whatever anyway, within 48 hours I was in hospital for nine days with scar. It was horrendous and I, I've had good fortune with health and would not be kind of a dramatic person and it just really rapidly deteriorated and I didn't even know that I would have that response to flu myself. So you know, I was like jeepers, just get the vaccines in now unfortunately, and this is another good point, there are obviously two different types of flu covered in all of the vaccines, whether it's nasal or injections.
Speaker 1 00:16:36 So you've got your type A and type B and type B tends to be milder, although I will disagree with that cause that's what landed me in hospital. But type A is what's around now and it has started earlier this year. It's like yeah like definitely I don't think there was any cases recorded up to this point last year and there's already significant number up on the H ps U website so it's starting earlier and you know people have this opportunity I think now is the time to go get it cuz it'll offer a lot of protection against that flu that's going around. The B tends to come later in the year in most cases and can be milder but it actually affects children more. So that's an interesting thing cause that's your kind of January, February, march, you know the kids are out a lot with sickness then and you kind of tend to blame it on it's been a long old winter and we're all worn out and tired. But what happens since our is our vaccines start to wane because different mutations of B come about that aren't necessarily covered in the vaccine. Do you know that's one of the really tricky parts and that's what happened to me. I know mine was a mutant flu B I'd been vaccinated.
Speaker 2 00:17:43 So do you think then that like, I mean it's a good idea though for parents to get their, their children vaccinated as soon as possible though to cover them for it as much of the winter as it can. Isn't that right?
Speaker 1 00:17:52 Yeah, absolutely. Cuz it's gonna take two weeks to work. So this is where it's tricky as pharmacists because obviously you want to get everyone vaccinated as soon as possible but obviously there's a capacity issue. So yeah, I think parents can be proactive and I know we were vaccinating people right up in November, you know, at the same level as we had been in October last year. And like the peak of flu tends to happen around Christmas. So I think for kids it's like let's not take any risks on the missing the last few days of school and Christmas jumper day and be miserable for Christmas. So the earlier the better really, but just to get it booked in. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:18:33 A hundred percent. Yeah exactly. And then are you doing um, flu vaccine and covid at the same time then for adults in your
Speaker 1 00:18:40 Pharmacy? Yeah, there's a lot of, so it's like at the moment I feel like <laugh> people come in for their covid booster, whether it be the over 60 fives who are currently eligible for their third booster or the over fifties or immunocompromised who you know like are getting second boosters and additional doses. So you know, you're kind of like, did you get your flu vaccine? And it's really funny. Everyone's like, no, gimme it. And you're like okay. And it's important to say that it's, it's not causing any worsening of side effects really from what I can see in my patients. We do do tend to do one in each arm unless completely unavoidable. Like say if someone's had Exactly, yeah, yeah. And so we've done quite a few in one arm for that reason. But in general it's one each and people are just happy because then look, we're all time poor, you know, you're in and you're out.
Speaker 1 00:19:28 I find it interesting this year and okay, it completely depends on area. So obviously we're in Dublin six and a lot of people, I dunno if it's the same everywhere, I can't speak for every pharmacy, but a lot of people are choosing to go in and get vaccinated even though they're not eligible. So for private vaccination because yeah they're, they're not as asthma, they don't have a risk group but like you said earlier, they're just more conscious of their community and workplace around them and they just think, look, I'll just get this done cuz do you know, maybe I'm gonna be seeing a lot of my mom and she tends to get, you know, respiratory issues or C O P D or whatever. And I think that's really positive. I think like you said there, people are taking a lot more active role in their wellness.
Speaker 2 00:20:11 Yeah, a hundred percent. People just don't, only bloody well sick cuz we've been such a shocking few years now with illness and sick. I don't think anyone has got away with not being touched by covid in some way shape or four and be it themselves or family members or friends. And we've been stuck at home for so long from with work, well not, you and I people are in there all time, but you know, people that can now go into work probably wanna go into work so they don't always stuck at home with flu. So yeah, I think it's, it's, it's good and it's positive all around positive I think.
Speaker 1 00:20:39 Yeah. So just before we move on, any other little tips? I dunno if you're finding it challenging at the moment. Maybe it's just my children, they were so good in the height covid and the return to school, obviously they were wearing their masks, so maybe that was a constant reminder that something was not normal. But the hand hygiene was amazing. The coughing into the elbows was amazing. Now it's like
Speaker 2 00:21:04 It all stopped now. We'd a full blown temper tantrum today and the snot was flying everywhere. But yeah, no, the, the hand hygiene has kind of gone a little bit by the wayside. So I suppose, you know, one of the really, really easy simple and cheap ways that people can do to avoid getting, I suppose avoid transmitting any kind of illness and then germs and books is the hand hygiene. So the Washington hands is really important. So try and encourage the kiddies to do that still.
Speaker 1 00:21:28 Yeah. And it's, it's not an easy battle but yeah, we'll get there. I'm trying to think, is there anything else Laura? I think we've covered it all really.
Speaker 2 00:21:35 Yeah, no idea. I think so, and I think it's important that people just realize how easy it is to get it and you know, they can go on the HSE website, the HBS C website, find out all the information.
Speaker 1 00:21:44 Okay, Laura? So I think it's clear that we are both big advocates for the flu vaccine and anything that helps, especially something so simple and so easy to keep illness out of our homes is very welcome. Where can people check out what you're up to at the moment? The
Speaker 2 00:22:00 Easiest and quickest way is Instagram. I have recently made the mid little step onto TikTok, dipped my toe on, although my son is horrified <laugh>, but you know, needs must. So I'm ticked out fabulous pharmacists too. Instagram fabulous pharmacists. I do a little bit on Facebook, but it's mainly Instagram and then obviously on my own podcast, the lower down experience where I just talk to interesting people. Yeah. Uh, but their lives, their lives history and maybe any tidbits of information they might have for people too. So
Speaker 1 00:22:28 I know, well I know you've done a lot of episodes on, on content, on various women's issues.
Speaker 2 00:22:33 Yeah, so I would be a big advocate for, uh, women's health in general. So I, you know, I'm always talking about menopause and you know, things like incontinence and periods and sex and all kinds of things that fall under the female umbrella, but often it often like, you know, overlaps into males as well. And um, I love men. I live in a house called men. I have beautiful brothers and dad and uncles and stuff like that. So, um, but I suppose if you were to pigeonhole me into one thing up, I suppose to be women's health Africa. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:23:04 And like look at, I, I think it's really important cuz you're chatting about topics that need to be discussed and are, maybe I'm gonna say it a bit awkward at times,
Speaker 2 00:23:15 <laugh> Yeah. Who wants to hear about incontinence and, you know, random things that people might have as issues with their vagina and their vo et cetera. So yeah, I kind of, I'm not an open book. I'll talk about anything to the point that I've probably embarrassed myself, but Sure. Listen, <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:23:30 Someone's gotta do it. Someone gotta,
Speaker 2 00:23:31 Someone's gotta do it.
Speaker 1 00:23:33 That's brilliant. Thank you so much for joining me today, Laura. It's a great,
Speaker 2 00:23:36 Lovely thanks.
Speaker 1 00:23:37 If you enjoy listening to a Wonder Wrap podcast, I'd be really grateful if you could follow or subscribe and leave a review. It really helps to support the show. Thank you.
