Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello and welcome to a Wonder Care podcast, formally known as Wonder Brother Podcast. I'm Sheena Mitchell, pharmacist and mom of three. I combine healthcare and practical advice to support you on your parenting journey. I bring you this episode with the support of Salon Plus Breathe Ease cell therapy device. This week I'm talking all about whether or not it's okay to let people kiss your newborn baby. It can be one of those awkward situations where you know, you don't want to let people, little babies are so vulnerable, but how do you actually deal with that? Does everyone take that news? Well, no. Particularly some very persistent grandparents. So I put it to my Instagram following, you can follow me on Instagram, by the way, for these fun chat boxes at Wonder Care underscore i l. So I was asking people if they're comfortable with people kissing their newborn babies and the responses. Speaker 0 00:01:00 Well, there were a lot. So the very, very, very clear response was, no, absolutely not. I don't want anyone touching my newborn. They haven't had all their vaccines. They're so vulnerable. I don't see why there's a need. People don't think about the germs that are on them, all of that. It did become apparent though that a lot of people struggle to maybe explain this to people, particularly the grandparents got mentioned a lot. So today I am going to arm you <laugh> with some information which is factual because I don't think there's any point in saying, no, no, you can't kiss the baby because some people may interpret that I suppose sensitively and think it's to do with them. So always reassure people who are giving your little baby a little cuddle that no, you don't want them kissing them. And there are very good reasons for that. Speaker 0 00:01:50 And then in another few months, the baby will absolutely be able to receive their kisses if they're healthy and well. But for now they're just too delicate. What can actually happen if you kiss a baby? So ultimately kissing a baby can spread germs that leads to illnesses. And some of these illnesses are very difficult for newborns, immune systems to fight. There are some illnesses that spring to mind. I'm gonna talk about cold source mor in a minute, but I think it's important to say it's not just cold source rsv, which we're all very aware of now because we've had a really rough season first. And while the levels have gone down, it's not completely eradicated for this year. RSV can cause really severe breathing problems in babies and it can actually affect their heart and brain as well. So anyone could be carrying or sv even an adult that seems well because they're not symptomatic because they have immunity. So it's important to remind people that they don't actually know what they're carrying. Just because they're not sick doesn't mean that they don't actually have the virus. Newborns have Speaker 1 00:02:59 Developing immune systems. They're not as robust as an older child and they have to work really hard to keep their little tiny bodies fighting, infection and disease. So the first few months of life, they're at their most vulnerable. So up to about three months of age. That alone is a reason why you don't want to even expose a baby to a cold because just bear in mind that their immune systems are not fully functional yet. Another kind of weird thing that can happen is if you're out in a restaurant, okay, that's maybe a bit ambitious. If someone calls over with a nice lunch for you and you're there with your newborn and you're all having a sandwich or you're having something to eat, the food particles that are on that person's skin can actually cause allergies in the newborn. Even hand hygiene is really, really important. Speaker 1 00:03:51 Another disease that can cause problems is hand, foot and mouth disease. And we are in that kind of season at the moment. Obviously hand, foot and mouth disease causes a rash in the hands, the mouth, the leg area, sometimes the nappy area as well, but it's not normally life threatening, but it can make infants with weaker immune systems a lot sicker. So this is one that's quite important if you've got other children coming over to visit, you know, so children under 10 are most likely to be carrying this quite common disease. Okay, so now onto the big one, cold sores. Cold sores are caused by a virus called the herpes simplex virus and it's extremely common. The tricky thing with cold sores is that if a younger baby gets the herpes simplex virus, they can develop a condition which is known as neonatal herpes. This can be very serious for a young baby and their immune system well struggle to fight off the virus. Speaker 1 00:04:51 So if someone who has a cold sore, they mightn't even have felt the tingle, yet they might have realized or they might think that their cold sore is all dried up and so it's safe. But if it's not and they kiss the baby, then your baby can catch the herpes simplex virus. A baby is most at risk of getting a herpes infection in the first four weeks after birth. I remember after having one of my babies, obviously I was so run down and I got a cold sore myself. It's very difficult to manage. And actually for moms who have csor thee csor plasters are invaluable in that situation because they cover the blister. And it just means that if you forget not to touch your mouth after washing your hands, then at least there is a barrier there and you're less likely to get any of the infected fluid onto your hands. Speaker 1 00:05:42 So how do you know if a newborn has a problem with herpes? They can become quite sick after catching the virus. They'll be lethargic, irritable, not feeding. They'll generally have high temperature. They can can have rash or sore on the skin, particularly around the eyes and the inside of the mouth. If your child obviously has any breathing difficulties or is difficult to wake or is breathing rapidly, then you know it's an emergency situation and you need to seek help. But often, and this is the hard bit to decipher, but a baby won't have any specific herpes symptoms such as the rash or little blisters and they can become unwell quite quickly. So you do need to act fast. Obviously it's not something to be majorly frightened of because you will identify it if it happens. If your baby is suddenly lethargic, no matter what infection is going on for a child under three months, you do need to be rushing them for medical attention. Speaker 1 00:06:38 So if the fever goes over 38 degrees, you're gonna have to see a doctor no matter what. When they're that small because of that very, very underdeveloped immune system, they can't treat neonatal therapies. It's important to say that. So it's usually by IV antiviral medicines, but it may actually be needed for several weeks. So it is difficult. It's difficult for everyone in the family. And it's not that a baby catching herpes will always end in severe illness. Sometimes they'll just have their eyes or mouth or skin affected and most will make a complete recovery with antiviral treatment. The condition can actually spread to the baby's organs. So it can be really serious. And unfortunately some babies do die from this even with treatment. So in terms of advice for visitors who may be coming over to see the baby, and look, this isn't as hard as a challenge as it was pre covid. Speaker 1 00:07:33 Pre covid. People thought you were lunatic if you wouldn't just hand over your baby and then everyone cuddled them. But now I think people are much more aware of infection prevention. If you have someone and you do want to let them hold the baby because that is okay and sometimes a bit of love is good for a baby, it's no problem. And you're not wrong to ask someone to wash their hands before they do. And even for yourself, it's a good idea to wash your hands before holding your own baby and before breastfeeding if you can. If it's practical and it's absolutely fine to tell people not to kiss your baby. And I'll go through to some kind ways to do that. Now, from what I can see in the responses that I got on Instagram, a lot of people are very comfortable saying no, but this is a conversation that comes up frequently. Speaker 1 00:08:19 So the one thing I want to say is that you are the only person who can advocate for your baby. So never ever be afraid to put boundaries in place that you are comfortable with. Cause ultimately this is your baby. You're absolutely entitled to say you, I don't want anyone hugging or kissing them right now, or No, I'd rather you didn't come over if you have a cold or you're recovering from whatever illness that you've had. And well, if you think you might be coming down with something, I'd still, even if you don't have it, I'd still rather you didn't call around. So all of that is important and don't let anyone make you feel bad for that. I think explaining to them what I've said there about a baby, having a very underdeveloped immune system for the first three months of life is a good way for them to understand what risks actually exist. Speaker 1 00:09:11 Because everyone can be a little bit sensitive. It is maybe important to go gently <laugh> with the older generation. So maybe just reassure them that it's not permanent. And of course your child will be more robust and able for cases when they're a little older, but right now the baby's just a little bit vulnerable. Remind them that you're making the rule for a reason and that you'd rather if they could prioritize the health of your baby over their own feelings. So that can be difficult and you do have to remind yourself why you're sticking up for your baby and you might ruffle some feathers amongst family and friends, but most people should be able to put hurt feelings aside to prioritize the baby. If people push your boundaries, then just remain levelheaded and strong. If someone's telling you that you're being an overreactive mother and they might do that, just remind yourself that you're in control. Speaker 1 00:10:09 Whether or not people agree with you or not, this is your child and if someone continues to ignore you, then you're well within your rights to say that Until you're prepared to respect my wishes on this, you're not gonna be able to see the baby. Like it sounds awful. And hopefully it won't come to that cause. As I said, we've gone through a period where people are just more aware of infection prevention and a good way to avoid any conflict is when they text to say that they're coming over. You can probably just pop a little note in your reply back just to avoid any direct confrontation and so that you're not put in a position that you don't want to be in. Because sometimes when you have a newborn and you haven't slept from my personal experience, you're very vulnerable <laugh> and you really aren't able for conflict and things can spiral really unnecessarily. Speaker 1 00:10:59 Just say, yeah, I'd love you to come over and see the baby. Obviously they're still a little young so you won't be able to kind of cuddle or kiss them today, but we'd absolutely love to see it if you're feeling well, something like that. And I'd just maybe emphasize for people who are coming over to visit and if they have young kids, like I know I have, I've had a few friends who've had babies recently and I'm conscious that I'm arriving over with, you know, an 11 year old, nine year old and seven year old who are all in school. And while they mightn't be unwell, they may very well be carrying lots of disease, as we all know how they spread around school. So sometimes it's just very important that maybe that person who's coming to visit explains to their children so that the kids aren't disappointed and they know the rules before they come in. Speaker 1 00:11:46 So maybe say to your friend, yeah, well I'd love to see the kids and I'd love to see you, but would you mind just telling the kids not to come too close to the baby at the moment, just cause they're so little. Obviously when the baby's older, I'll be so happy for them to come over and play with them and they're gonna play a really important role in teaching my baby how to play and potentially babysitting, just gonna put it out there. But <laugh> for the time being, it's just helpful to remind people to have those conversations with their kids. And that means that you're not in a position where you feel like, you know, you have to give out to someone else's child cuz they haven't done the prep work. Like that's not acceptable for you and you shouldn't have to do it. So just maybe like parents forget and as children get older, you do forget how vulnerable babies are. Speaker 1 00:12:32 So it's no harm, just a habit flagged on everyone's mind. It is great to see that in the instant messages. A lot of people are saying that they actually haven't had to say it to everyone because everyone was so aware of the risks. And the risks are high, unfortunately, when they're under two or three months of age. And there does seem to be a mix. A lot of people are saying that it causes conflict in their households and then other people are just obviously very frustrated cuz they don't understand the need to kiss their newborn. And look, babies are very cute and everyone's just happy for you and everyone wants to be involved, but I think it's very fair to put firm boundaries down. You know, if you want, you can just flick this podcast on to anyone <laugh> who's coming to visit you when you have a newborn and just go, yeah, maybe listen to that. Speaker 1 00:13:19 There is actual real risk associated with you kissing my baby. It's not me being dramatic. The lady on the podcast says it, blame her. I mean, I'm happy to take the blame. Okay, enjoy your newborns. If you have found this episode helpful, I would be so, so grateful If you could give us a little review on Spotify or Apple or wherever you listen to your podcast and keep an eye on my question boxes where you'll get to ask questions about the upcoming topics. I absolutely love hearing from all of you. Do subscribe and follow the show to keep up to date on everything, family health. Thank you.